Watching Zeitgest
If you haven't seen Zeitgest http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197
I must warn those of you who share the Christian faith, it will make you ask serious questions about the true nature of our religion. I'll not spoil it for you, except to say that the film poses serious questions about whether Jesus existed or not. It goes into detail about how none of the well known historians at that time made any mention of him. Naturally, as a believer who is also prone toward scientific/historical research and investigation, I looked more deeply into this matter. Some of the quotations on this page point toward an objective verification of Jesus' existence: http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/extrabiblical.htm
Particularly, there is a quote from Flavius Joseph 37 -97 AD that most non-objectively speaks of the existence of Jesus:
"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." (Arabic translation)
(Many of the other examples on this site are not as strong from a scientific perspective in the sense that many of the accounts were written by biased (Christian) historians who were simply retelling and reverberating the stories and tenants of their faith.)
A link with a little bit more ammo for the Christ advocate is
here: http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html
It makes reference to a Roman Tacitus who was an unbiased Roman historian that spoke of Jesus. It also speaks of the Talmud's reference to the crucifixion. It also speaks of the violence and destruction of most of Israel in 70 A.D. and how this would mean many of Jesus eyewitnesses would have been killed. This is all a little more solid to me.
It's one thing to argue about the theological or spiritual significance of Jesus...even when challenged from the existential perspective, Jesus can be presented as the manifestation of God through the Holy Spirit.... in other words, a true and living God accomplishing, living and defining his true essence (perfect love) through sacrificial crucifixion and resurrection. However, if the plain and simple question of whether or not Jesus existed is put forth, and someone wants you to prove it scientifically through factual historical evidence, theological spiritual and philosophical arguments are obsolete at that point and there must be demonstrative evidence put forth to establish that Jesus existed in the first place. Since I am not Indiana Jones, I do not have a direct answer that I can put forth, but I would appreciate feedback from believers and non-believers alike. This is the scientist in me speaking.
The Christian in me says that Jesus is alive in the hearts of believers through the power of the Holy Spirit and as Paul says "now we only know in part". I choose to believe Jesus exists, saves and empowers through the faith that God activates in my soul.
This of course makes me think of Neo in the Matrix ("because I choose too"). Faith is something that has to be activated and as it is activated the mysteries of God are revealed to those who would seek after them. In other words, I can't prove Jesus existed but Faith is the evidence of things unseen and the substance of things hoped for so it is fitting that Jesus, being the manifestation of our faith would fit such a description himself.
If you haven't seen Zeitgest http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197
I must warn those of you who share the Christian faith, it will make you ask serious questions about the true nature of our religion. I'll not spoil it for you, except to say that the film poses serious questions about whether Jesus existed or not. It goes into detail about how none of the well known historians at that time made any mention of him. Naturally, as a believer who is also prone toward scientific/historical research and investigation, I looked more deeply into this matter. Some of the quotations on this page point toward an objective verification of Jesus' existence: http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/extrabiblical.htm
Particularly, there is a quote from Flavius Joseph 37 -97 AD that most non-objectively speaks of the existence of Jesus:
"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." (Arabic translation)
(Many of the other examples on this site are not as strong from a scientific perspective in the sense that many of the accounts were written by biased (Christian) historians who were simply retelling and reverberating the stories and tenants of their faith.)
A link with a little bit more ammo for the Christ advocate is
here: http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.htmlIt makes reference to a Roman Tacitus who was an unbiased Roman historian that spoke of Jesus. It also speaks of the Talmud's reference to the crucifixion. It also speaks of the violence and destruction of most of Israel in 70 A.D. and how this would mean many of Jesus eyewitnesses would have been killed. This is all a little more solid to me.
It's one thing to argue about the theological or spiritual significance of Jesus...even when challenged from the existential perspective, Jesus can be presented as the manifestation of God through the Holy Spirit.... in other words, a true and living God accomplishing, living and defining his true essence (perfect love) through sacrificial crucifixion and resurrection. However, if the plain and simple question of whether or not Jesus existed is put forth, and someone wants you to prove it scientifically through factual historical evidence, theological spiritual and philosophical arguments are obsolete at that point and there must be demonstrative evidence put forth to establish that Jesus existed in the first place. Since I am not Indiana Jones, I do not have a direct answer that I can put forth, but I would appreciate feedback from believers and non-believers alike. This is the scientist in me speaking.
The Christian in me says that Jesus is alive in the hearts of believers through the power of the Holy Spirit and as Paul says "now we only know in part". I choose to believe Jesus exists, saves and empowers through the faith that God activates in my soul.
This of course makes me think of Neo in the Matrix ("because I choose too"). Faith is something that has to be activated and as it is activated the mysteries of God are revealed to those who would seek after them. In other words, I can't prove Jesus existed but Faith is the evidence of things unseen and the substance of things hoped for so it is fitting that Jesus, being the manifestation of our faith would fit such a description himself.
